When Trials Teach Us to See God - Michelle Ogden

“Cancer was the best thing that ever happened to me.” Those are Michelle Ogden’s words after walking through a brief but life-changing health trial. She joins us to talk about God’s tender mercies, the power of community, and how she found peace by trusting His plan—no matter the outcome.

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Transcript

When Trials Teach Us to See God - Michelle Ogden - September 4, 2025

Michelle: I just loved it, and kind of starting to realize that there's no coincidences ever, right? We we think that life is just full of coincidences, like, oh, I just happened upon this. And truth be told, I think there's angels and people watching over us and there's a lot going on behind the scenes.

Candice: Welcome to the Sisters podcast, Sisters: Latter-Day Voices.

Michelle: I'm Candice and I'm Clare

Candice: And today we are talking with Michelle Ogden. Just to give you a brief intro about her, Michelle Torres Ogden was born in Salt Lake City. She's proud of her Mexican, Italian and English heritage and shares a close bond with her two siblings, an older brother and a younger sister. Michelle graduated from BYU in two thousand and five with a degree in exercise science. That same year, she married her adventurous husband, Devin, and together they've built a full life of outdoor fun mountain biking, skiing, hiking and rafting with their four children. Today, Michelle lives in Boise, Idaho and works as an and works as an industrial agent in commercial real estate. So welcome, Michelle.

Michelle: Thank you. Happy to be here.

Candice: So I think it's nice for people to get just an overview of what your day looks like. I mean, we've just mentioned that you're a mom of four kids and also working. But would you say in a week or in a day, what does your average day look like right now? Like what are you dealing with?

Michelle: Okay, so yesterday I put the house together in the morning for an hour. Then I ran into a board of directors meeting for CCIM I. It's a commercial real estate board here in Idaho that I'm on their chapter. And then from that, I ran into the office and did a few hours of work. And then from there I ran to my son Lucas's track meet, and then from track meet, we headed to a volleyball banquet for my daughter. And then after that, back home for flag football party at our house, followed by activity days.

Candice: Hey, so basically life is busy.

Michelle: Yes.

Candice: My goodness, that sounds like a lot. That is fun though.

Michelle: It is. It is a lot of fun.

Candice: What ages are your kids right now?

Michelle: Okay, so.

Michelle: Ava is seventeen. She's a junior in high school, and then Porter is fifteen years old. He is in ninth grade and Lucas is thirteen, in seventh grade. And then my youngest, Dax, he's in elementary school and he's nine.

Candice: Okay, nice. So just a busy time of life. Lots of different ages and different things going on.

Michelle: Yes.

Candice: Um.

Clare: So you guys are one of the most adventurous families I've ever met. Because they're always doing something so fun.

Michelle: The fear factor doesn't totally exist in our family, which is a good and a bad thing.

Candice: That's true. We went to lagoon with you guys. I'm your closest friend. But yeah, you guys went on all the rides where I'm a baby. It takes me. So, like, I have to work up a lot of courage just to go on a big ride. But that's impressive. So we're going to be talking about trials today. You recently had a health scare with cancer. And I think trials come in many different shapes and forms. Some are brief, some last a lifetime, and I think we can learn from all of them, hopefully, as challenging as that might be, and I believe yours was brief, I'm interested to hear more about it. Brief but potentially life altering. So you recently learned that you had cancer, and we're going to talk about your story with that.

Michelle: Yes, yes. So what was.

Clare: Some of the first signs, if you don't mind sharing of when you knew something was not right?

Michelle: Yeah, absolutely. So, um, actually, the first time I had blood in my stool when I was thirty, I went into the doctor. They didn't really say anything. They weren't worried about anything. It happened again in January of this year. And when it happened, my husband immediately said to me, you are going to go in and we are such people that we are adventurous. We don't take life too seriously. And so the fact that we both felt like this was something we should check into. He said that, and I remember when he said that I thought, he's right. I'm going to check into this. So I called a colonoscopy clinic the next day and was able to get on their schedule, but I wasn't able to get on until the end of March. And this was January. And I said, great, no big deal. I'm really not worried about this, but I promised myself I'd check into it. And then it left my mind.

Michelle: Oh, okay.

Michelle: Yeah. And then when I went in for my colonoscopy, well, I went in and I met with the PA first and she kind of had the same sentiment. I talked with a few people in the health field and they said, you know, it's likely it was just an internal hemorrhoid. When you have babies, it's an internal hemorrhoid. It probably bursts. That's why you have blood in your stool. And the PA said, but if you are worried about it and you want to check into it, just out of an abundance of caution, we could get you in for a colonoscopy. And I said, absolutely, let's do it. I was riding home that day and they'd kind of let me know it's going to be a co-pay or insurance isn't going to cover it, because usually they don't screen until you're forty five. And I'm forty one right now. And so when they called and let me know what the billing, I was kind of thinking, oh, maybe I'm being a little bit overreactive with this. I usually don't get too worried about anything going on in my life, and so I almost cancelled it because I thought I'm maybe just being overreactive. The PA said she wasn't worried about it, so why should I be worried about it? But talk to my parents, talk to my husband and both. And we all agreed. Let. Yeah, let's just go in and do this.

Michelle: I feel like.

Clare: That's impressive because at the same time it's like, okay, most likely it's nothing. And then it is expensive. All medical procedures. So you have all these things saying, oh, you're kind of silly for going that extra step, but that's cool that all of you were like, no, let's do this. Let's try to figure out more.

Michelle: Yes.

Clare: Of what's happening.

Candice: What happened with the colonoscopy okay. So results immediately.

Michelle: Yes.

Michelle: I went in for the colonoscopy and I came off of the medicine. The doctor came into the room and he very straightforward, which I really appreciate because as a doctor, it's your job to tell people the truth, not what they want to hear. And he came in, he told me I had nine polyps. They removed six of them. And he also said, and then we found cancer just so nonchalantly. And so I kind of look over at Devon. Luckily he was in the room with me and he said, it's been there a long time and it was pretty extensive. I've tattooed it. So when you go in for surgery to have this removed, they'll know where it is and we need to send you in for a CT scan. And so I'm sitting there waiting and I was shockingly calm. I mean, you're coming off of a little bit of meds, but.

 Clare: Do you remember what he said?

Michelle: Yes. Devin was looking at me, so my degree in exercise science kind of helps me have an idea of what's going on in the body. And so Devin was kind of looking at me like, is this a big deal? And I remember thinking, well, they can cut it out of me, but I hadn't really looked into what it meant to have a colon cancer. And depending on what stage you find it in, it's a very different story for everybody. So at this point, we knew it was in there. It had been there a long time, and they would not let me leave until we had a CT, not only scheduled, but they found a CT within ten minutes that I drove across the street and went and got my CT scan done. And I was talking to the nurse and I said, I just don't get it. I felt so great. I feel so healthy. Is this something that would have traveled and and how would I still be feeling so good if it had traveled? And she said, unfortunately, yes, it will travel. You'll have no idea. And you'll feel great. We just need to get this checked out. And so that's kind of when the tone kind of changed and we started to realize this could be a really big deal.

 Clare: I think especially for huge moments in life where, like, I remember very specifically where a moment happened, where it's almost like everything slows down in your body and you're just like, wait, is what this person really saying to me true? And then it just takes a minute to internalize, like, oh, sometimes I almost think, no, this is wrong. I'm not the person who can handle this. And then it just takes me a minute to process.

 Michelle: Yes, I feel like it was.

 Michelle: Definitely more than I could process for a few days of what it was going to mean. We were driving home from the CT scan, and I remember just sitting in the car thinking, I didn't really know what this meant, but I had a few really clear ideas on how I wanted to handle it. I had decided I was going to talk to my kids first. That meant the most to me and Devin and our little family unit. And so I was thinking about that. I was thinking about how I was just going to tell anybody anything and everything about my diagnosis. It was something that I wanted to have people be a part of the process with me. I knew I wanted that kind of love and support, and I knew that keeping things hidden and secret never helps anybody else. So that was a huge benefit and thought and clarity that came to me on the way home is that we're going to talk about this with the kids, with family members, with friends, with ward members. And I was kind of pumping myself up to just be open and honest, authentic and vulnerable in that moment.

Candice: Was that hard to implement? I know it kind of depends on Personalities. Sometimes. If you're an extrovert, it's one thing to have that idea of, okay, I know I want to share this with people, but was that difficult when you actually did try to let the world know and people know, or did it come?

Michelle: Oh, it was very difficult.

Michelle: For me because I am trying to be more of an outgoing and open person, and it's getting easier the more I do it. But definitely sharing things that are scary or vulnerable or bring up a lot of emotion is hard for me because you get tears involved or you get feelings involved and and to be emotionally open is is a hard thing for me.

Candice: It's vulnerable.

Michelle: Yes.

Candice: Scary. But it's so nice that you had that clarity because people want to help. People want to know. I think even for me, in any of the trials that I've had, I feel like when I share something with somebody, it lightens something like it kind of lightens the load just to know that somebody knows or is concerned about you, like knows what you're going through.

Michelle: Yes, absolutely.

Michelle: Um, the other thing is, is we get to actually bear testimony and show that we what we feel and how we feel it and why we feel it. You really can't portray that unless you tell the story until you.

Michelle: Be honest with.

Michelle: What, why? How is going on in your life?

Candice: It's more powerful. Speaking of your testimony and faith, how did that help you in those uncertain days when you're having those feelings?

Michelle: Yeah.

Michelle: So as we were driving home from the CT scan, we had no idea what stage of cancer this was life was going to look like for the next day, week, month, years. All of that was so unknown to me, but I had this really strong impression. It was like this formula came into my mind of something that had happened years prior during a health scare with my son, and during that time I was given a strong impression that God knew me. He had a plan for me. He had a plan for my family, for my son, and that I could trust in him. And so when I was driving in the car home from that CT scan with so many unknowns, God said, hey, I already told you the answer to this. You can trust in me. Remember, you can trust in me. And that hit me. It stuck with me from the beginning that no matter what happened with this, this was my plan. This is what God wanted for me. And I could move forward with faith that anything that happened would be for my good, no matter the outcome. The stage. Anything doing with my cancer, God would not only uphold me, my kids and my family would be okay because I think that's where my mind turned to the most. As I was heading home is not only what this meant for me, but what this meant for my husband and for my four kids.

Candice: I think for you to have that clarity in a spiritual sense of mine. I feel like it's a testament to where you're at spiritually because I think for me, it's easy to prepare for things when I know what's coming. But this was very unexpected. And I think when we are in a place where we're spiritually strong, we're more easily able to feel those feelings of comfort or have clarity about our lives and the grander scheme of things. And it reminded me of Elder Eyring's most recent conference talk. He talked about what's titled Draw Near unto Me and saying how Jesus has that invitation draw near unto me, and I will draw near unto you. If you seek me diligently, I'll be there. You didn't know that this was coming. I think you had to have been in a good place spiritually, to be able to have something hit you that big, and to be able to have that peace of mind. What were you doing regularly before you got that news? Maybe. Or were you doing anything regularly spiritually that would help you with that? When that when that news did come?

Michelle: Yeah.

Michelle: So when the news came and probably over the last few years, we all get in a point where sometimes we have our head down, we're going to work, we're going to school, we're getting the kids to school, we're doing whatever it is we're doing in our lives. We all have so many different paths that we're taking, and sometimes we just have our heads down. And so I think for me, I like to think about the fact that I was doing all the things I know I should. I was seeking God at church. I was trying to help out other people in my life. But at the same time, I think I also just had my head down and I was just going, going, going through life. So it's kind of like I knew the stars were there, but man, maybe it was dark outside one day or it was cloudy one day. But what I would like to say is that while I knew God was there in my life. Maybe I was in a phase where I was just going, doing, doing all the things that were good and great, but not necessarily thinking about how much God was there in my life. And so when I got the diagnosis, it was General Conference the next week. And after sitting there and listening to those talks, I remember just sitting out talking to my husband, and I was just kind of tears rolling down my face, and I said, I'm so grateful that I get a chance to step back to maybe hit a reset button to reevaluate the relationships in my life. Um, relationships with spouse, relationship with kids, relationships with extended families, relationships with friends, and kind of take a minute to look and change my perspective. Maybe I'd gotten too busy doing all the minutia of life that I don't think I was fully taking advantage of those things. So it's kind of hard to know where we are spiritually, because sometimes we just show up every day, but we don't always feel God's love emanating in our life. And honestly, I think that's probably where I was. And then to have this happen was a total reset. And I started feeling and seeing God's love everywhere. Once I got my diagnosis, and to me, that was probably the biggest blessing. It wasn't necessarily something I was able to see or focus on before it was there. Those stars were there, but maybe they were behind the clouds. And once I got my diagnosis, I started seeing God and God's love and God's miracles everywhere.

Candice: That's amazing. Would you maybe share some of those examples of how you felt God's love?

 Michelle: Yes. First of all, getting my diagnosis, I had reached out to a friend and let her know of my diagnosis. Her husband is a surgeon and had worked on the board at the hospital where I went to and he said, hey, I have this great friend. He's a great colorectal surgeon. Can I maybe give him your number? Would would you like to go to him? And I said, oh, absolutely. He looks great. He's one of the top colorectal surgeons here in Boise. And so after I talked to my friend on the phone, two minutes later, I get a phone call from my surgeon, Doctor Dattani. And he was phenomenal. He called me. He was so personable. He told me, I think this is going to be okay. I looked at your CT scans. It doesn't look like it's spread. I really think I can cut this out for you. And you can have a long, happy, healthy life. And just tears rolling down my face. And he said, and you should know, your friend called me in tears and was so worried about you. Um, to be worried about and thought about like that and then to be helped is is a huge miracle. Actually, the night before I had a priesthood blessing, my dear friend and bishop came over. My husband was there, and my brother came out, and they were able to give me guidance and counsel and a blessing. And in that blessing he said, Michelle, I saw you talking to the right people at the right times, and I think I saw you connecting with the surgeons and the doctors that were going to help you out. And I knew that you would be okay. And so there I saw the priesthood power through witness, through my family and friends. I saw people that were coming together to help me. Um, people showing up for me blew me away. Um, friends coming over and doing yard work. I had a million notes, so many flowers that it just filled my Home with such happiness and peace. Like I said, I never really felt sad throughout this whole process because of how people were showing up. For me, texts were incredible. Um, I had the cutest lady at church stop me and she's our librarian and she's so sweet. And I interact with her a little, but not a lot. And she said, I want you to know I prayed for you every day. And then she kind of got teary and she said, actually, sometimes three times a day. And oh my gosh, I kind of just teared up to think that somebody would care about me so much to do that. And it felt a little bit undeserving of it at first. Just so much love. And to feel that everybody kind of get the perspective that everybody in this life is worth it. And most of all, I saw God show up through the people that came into my life that just were open and vulnerable and helped me. I had another, another friend, a sister and a few words over that said, I've been thinking about you and I want to just have a special prayer for you and we'll get together as friends and pray. And at first it was something I thought, oh, I've never done that before. I don't know how that will be. And when I showed up for it, it was beautiful. It was beautiful. So letting people, letting people love me, that was a little bit hard at first, but it was incredible. And that kind of goes back to what I had decided in the car ride home. Like I was going to let people know and I was going to let people in. And that has been life changing for me.

Candice: I think that's such a great example. It's it's very sweet to hear those things done for you. And I think that's such a great example of ministering, not necessarily assigned ministering, but people reaching out and ministering to someone that is in their ward family and that they care about.

 Clare: And just to know so many people have your back and are praying for you, even just the unexpected people, which is another boost, just like, okay, that's not even a close friend. And this person loves me enough to pray for me, which is so sweet. And I know everything went pretty fast, and I feel like it was just all these tender mercies where things were lining up for you. But after getting the initial diagnosis, what were the next steps in the journey?

 Michelle: After I got my diagnosis and they did the CT scan, they found that it had not traveled to any major organs. I got on the schedule to have one foot of my colon removed. So on April eighteenth I went in and had a foot of my colon removed and they moved a portion above that included lymph nodes and a portion below where cancer usually likes to travel and surgery was, well, bowels get rearranged. They cut it out, they overlap it. And luckily with the laparoscopic surgery, I didn't need to have a colostomy bag. They said get out walking. And so I would kind of move slowly and slowly every day. The week after surgery, my surgeon was able to call and let me know that they did pathology on all of the lymph nodes, and all thirty seven that he took were clear there was no cancer in any of them, and after meeting with the oncologist, this meant that there was no chemo to. So if I had had any cancer in any one of the lymph nodes, it would have been some sort of a routine of chemo and or radiation, I'm not sure, but because they hadn't found any, that meant no chemo, that meant that I was able to just be on be on watch.

 Clare: That's amazing to just have all of this happen so suddenly. And then there's just all these little waiting periods. It's like, okay, you wait for the surgery. Then after the surgery, he says what he thinks, but then you still have to wait for pathology and then the pathology. You have to wait for the doctor to see it. So there's all these waiting periods. I know they don't always end up like this. And everything was literally best case scenario in every aspect. So during the recovery times, what helped you most physically, emotionally? Mentally? Were there are certain things that helped get you through?

 Michelle: Yes. I think the biggest thing was going back to that first lesson, the equation in the car that I could trust in God, that I could show up and no matter what the outcome was. So say the outcome was that this was stage three or four and it had moved into a major organ. I would have had that same trust and peace that this was okay. And the biggest thing that you just draw on in those times is the love and the relationships you have with your family. And I remember saying a few times to Devin like, this is okay. No matter what happens, we're married, we're still together, we've got great kids, we've taught them great things. They'll hopefully continue to to love God and to love their neighbors. And hopefully I've taught them that they need to treat everybody around them right, and they can be the light of God by how they treat others, and that those were the important things that just kept coming back into my mind is it didn't matter how this turned out because because what I had been taught and what I was teaching my kids. And so that was kind of the perspective that I adopted from the beginning, that this was going to be great no matter the outcome. Um, it did make life that much sweeter when I knew, okay, it hasn't traveled to any major organs. That means I have much more time. So the little things in life became amazing. Driving with my son, who's has his driver's permit, and he's a great driver. but every now and then you get nervous behind the wheel with a new driver and thought, this is just so great, or going to a music performance of elementary school where they're playing the recorder and it's completely off. But I just had a smile on my face the whole time because I was just so happy to be there. So having that perspective of making life count, one of the one of the big things I wanted to do before I went in for surgery, because I knew I was going to be out for at least six weeks, maybe longer with chemo is do a mountain bike ride. And so I went on a few mountain bike rides, one with my family, and I just love just careening down the hill. And to me that is life. I said, you know, it's more scary than dying is really not living life, living with some sort of fear or something that's going to hold you back. And so I feel so incredible to have a minute where I could look at the things in my life that I love and have those thoughts like, I don't want to live with fear. I don't want to live small anymore. I don't want to live scared of sharing what's in my heart or having an emotional experience with somebody because I feel a little bit uncomfortable. It taught me that life. Life is and can be short and we're not ever guaranteed tomorrow. And so why not make today wonderful with what you're going to do with who you're going to reach out to, especially having been on the side of filling prayers? That's a real power to me. I've never been on that side, having been on the side of really filling that love and that care, and watching how people show up for people makes me want that much more to be that person that's out there that's showing up that if for some reason somebody is not feeling God's love today or in their life, maybe I could be somebody that brings that to them. And for me, that was the biggest thing that got me through this is no matter what, I don't want to be different. I want to follow God. I want to share his light, and I want to show everybody that that not only am I grateful for what they did for me, but I want to share that with everybody.

 Candice: After this, I want to go back through the transcript and just copy and paste what you said about fear, because that is such a great quote, just to not live in fear, because I think fear gets in the way so many times, things that we want to do, things that really would make us happy or we'd grow from, but we're held back by fear. That's a great perspective.

 Clare: This was reminding me. So a while back, Candice told me to watch this show on Angels Studios, and it's called breaking Into beautiful, and it's about this lady, Kim White, who passed away. She had a very aggressive form of cancer, but it was kind of groundbreaking because when it happened, she decided to include everyone and share with everyone her journey. And it was on Instagram. And then she would have all these people show up for her. And it was this beautiful documentary. You'll just cry. Like even thinking about it makes me just tear up. But her outlook on life, just the courage that she had and how much love she said there was this quote and I don't know if she said it, but she said it's not just about surviving, it's about embracing every messy, beautiful moment along the way. And her cancer, it took her life, but the outlook she had on it, where she really did just brace everything. She did everything she could. And she had some miraculous things happen where she survived a lot longer than she was supposed to, but just how she didn't let fear hold her back. And she kept going and just showed so much love. And she had all these experiences where she knew that she was a child of God, and how much God loved her and how much others loved and supported her. And I remember seeing this on your journey where it was fast and testimony meeting, and it was before you got any results back. But your testimony was so strong and powerful, and you could tell in your heart that you knew, no matter the outcome, that you were okay with it and how much God loves you and is aware of you. And I just thought that that was so beautiful. You're experiencing this huge trial in your life.

 Candice: And I think that's, again, that's a testament to your perspective of being close to God, because I think it could easily go the other way where people might feel angry or upset by it, or resentful almost, that they have to experience this. But when you have that eternal perspective, when you know, God loves you. It changes things.

 Michelle: Yes, absolutely. I feel like the perspective is amazing. To walk away from something like this feels like more of a blessing than a trial. That's why I kind of think it's funny. If you'd asked me, even right now, I'm like, cancer is like the best thing that's ever happened to me. It gave me a chance to kind of, like I said, do a reset, do a reevaluation on my life. We had an amazing experience where our state president, President Becerra, and a visiting authority elder Kocis.

 Clare: I think I don't know how to say it.

 Michelle: They came over and it was so cool because at first I thought, oh, this is embarrassing. There's so many more people that need this visit more than me. We kind of belittle ourselves sometimes. Um, but President Boettcher told a beautiful story about how he had a moment when he was younger that his brother was rushed off to the hospital, not doing well. And in that moment he said a prayer and he said, you know, there's some prayers you say in their prayers and there's some prayers you say, and you really, really mean it. And he looked to my sons who were there, and Ava was traveling. She had to do tennis that day. But he looked at my sons and he said, I bet you guys were really, really praying for your mom that day. And we had such a tender moment when we talked with our kids about my cancer diagnosis were up in my room and we're all in there and we're just all in tears and we're not knowing what the future holds, but we're all just praying fervently and realizing, like, at this moment, nothing else really matters except that we have trust in God and that we have each other. And he said, you know, at that moment I learned to trust in God. And I think that maybe is what God wants you to know. And so I thought, man, I hope so. I kind of told my kids that I stood up and I bore my testimony twice in a row, in a month or one month and the next month, which I've never wanted to do ever in my life, and felt the feeling to go up and just share what was on my mind. But I more than anything, I just want my kids to know that they can trust in God. They can watch what's going on in their lives, and they can reach out to him. And then once they reach out to him, then they can get that foundation in him. Then they can turn and then reach out to others and be a force for good in this world. And then our visiting authority, Elder Cosas, he was saying that after this, probably your perspective has changed and he he hit it on the head. He knew exactly that. He had an insight into things that were most important in our lives. And it's not the routine, it's not the work. It's not the shuffling of kids. It's those tiny inklings that come and it'll whisper in your heart and you'll think, oh, I'm so busy. I'll do that later. That's probably the most important thing you should have done that day, because I was in a place in my life where I was able to kind of just keep my head down and push those inklings off. So when I got the impression to stand up and bear my testimony, you know, I'm shaking and I'm up there doing it, but I felt like I needed to show that God could trust me, that I trusted him, and if he wanted me to do something, I could be brave enough and I could trust him and just go out and do that. So I've been trying to do that more in my life, where not only do I trust God, but I'm trying to listen and show that he can trust me too. Yes.

 Candice: This is so perfect because we just had these questions written down. But honestly, everything that you've been talking about, it's just covering all of the questions naturally. Like I'll look at a question like, oh no, she's just talking about it right now.

Michelle: I was reading these questions and one of them talked about talk a conference talk, something that carried me through. My co-teacher in my primary class had sent me this talk, and I just loved it, and kind of starting to realize that there's no coincidences ever, right? We we think that life is just full of coincidences, like, oh, I just happened upon this. And truth be told, I think there's angels and people watching over us and there's a lot going on behind the scenes. And you start to realize that as a parent, when you're a kid, you show up and things, that things just magically happen. The house was clean or my laundry was in my room, or all these things just happen and they don't just happen.

Clare: I know, right? I still remember there was this talk that I've remembered for years by Elder Eyring. It talks about the tender mercies in his life, and if you really think about it, and if you look every single day, he has a journal. It's like, how have I seen God's hand? And that stuck with me for years now. And even if it's something so small where my child just gives me a real hug, I'm like, that was it for the day. And then sometimes there are bigger things, but I just think, no, they're not coincidences. There's so many things that are meant to be for you.

Michelle: Yeah. So this talk was called The Love of God by Elder Benjamin M Z. I don't know if I've said that right, but he talks about how the love of God is surrounding us. He went on a camping trip with his kids, and they're usually used to living in a big city. And they look up and they hadn't seen really the stars ever. And so they go out camping and they're looking up the stars and they are magnificent. They're everywhere. You can see a million of them. And they so cutely asked their dad, like, dad, is this the same sky we live under back home? And he says, absolutely. You just can't see it because of the pollution or the clouds. And I think that was kind of me at that time. Like I'm walking around like, did you know, we live in this beautiful world and there's so much love and the sky is so blue. It's amazing to look at the miracles that are happening. Hey, is not everybody seeing these miracles? What a beautiful time to be alive. And they think a lot of us, we just live in that pollution in our lives where we can't see and we can't feel the love of God. And so I'm I'm trying to keep that at the forefront of my mind. And not only that, but to share it. He goes on in his talk and he talks about how once we fill this, just like Lehi did in his dream, that we want to take our opportunities of loving and sharing and invite that everybody can fill that. And that kind of stuck with me. And I really like this. It says, if you would like to fill the love of God more abundantly in your life, may I invite you to consider the following. First, pause frequently to remember that you are a child of God and think of the things you are grateful for. Second, pray daily asking Heavenly Father to help you know who around you needs to fill his love. Third, ask sincerely what you can do to help that individual to fill the love of God. And fourth, act promptly on the inspiration you receive. And that just hit so close to home for what I was trying to do. It was like, hey, I had my head down. I maybe wasn't feeling or seeing the love of God, and now I feel it so strongly and it's like, well, now what do I do? And it's like, number one, keep filling it. Stop and look and say, what am I grateful for in my life? You got to figure that out in your life. And then once you have that, go out and share that. And that's what God wants us to do, is to be him here on earth to to do what we can do to spread goodness and light and to help other people see it.

Candice: Yeah, that's fantastic advice. That's amazing.

Michelle: And the one other thing that I was thinking of is sometimes we're so worried about how we are going to show up for people.

Candice: Oh, yeah.

 Michelle: And the answer to that is in any way possible. Some people are emotionally open. Their prayers, their huggers. Some people want to bring you a meal. I actually have a really cute. I've got a friend who is eighty years old. His wife is in a nursing home. He calls me up, worried about me and brings me a meal. Me and my family a meal and sits down and visits with us. And I think that in any way that you show up is incredible. You know, my sister was there, and she brought me a little notebook and a note and a ring, and other friends would call me and talk to me. And I think that there is no wrong way to show up for anybody. And there's no wrong way of serving. Everybody serves according to their personality and comfort level, and just showing up for people is incredible. So that's kind of my plan, is not be afraid and just show up when and where and how I can.

Candice: So there weren't any things that people did that weren't helpful, like trying to mean well but weren't helpful.

 Michelle: No. Everybody that came was just incredible, just amazing. And I think there's two sides of that, of just realizing that everybody that was kind of something I decided early on, is that I would allow people in and I would allow them to love me and serve me and help me, because sometimes it's actually it's a lot easier to be the person that's giving the service than it is to be the person that's receiving it. That can be that could. That was a little bit of a challenge because I'm so used to being so independent, but instead of learning to look at it and feel Still weird or awkward. I just changed that all to gratitude, and it just changed my life to allow people to serve you and to allow them in with gratitude and humility was was beautiful.

Candice: I think it's great to hear that, especially because you mentioned that you are maybe not outgoing naturally. I think it's so easy to talk ourselves out of service to think, oh, I'm going to be annoying to them. They're not going to want me to do anything. But people love knowing that they're cared about. And so any effort you make to show that you care and love for somebody is going to be well received, hopefully. So it's nice to hear that. Like, no, you weren't upset. You just appreciated everything.

Clare: And it's beautiful to know that everyone loves in their own way and shows it in a different way. And then that's okay, because sometimes you read things on the internet like, this is the worst thing to say to someone. This is the best thing to say to someone, and then it gets in your head like, oh no, what if I call too much? Or oh no, what if this text was not the right wording? Or sometimes it's just like, stop all that. That's not the point of it. It's just to show love however you can, whether it's a meal or a gift or a prayer or a hug. And I love that you also, as the recipient, just were so thankful and grateful that no matter how you received it, you welcomed it with open arms instead of being like, oh, I wish this didn't happen, which is also a way that people can be sometimes.

Michelle: Yeah, and that goes kind of with not letting the fear rule our lives, because so many times we're afraid to take good actions, and so many times we're afraid to let people in because of what they'll see or judge us. And so I think when we're able to be emotionally open and vulnerable, that is one of the biggest ways we live without fear. I used to laugh because they said, you know, I careen down mountains. One of my favorite bike rides on my mountain bike ride is in Moab. And it's going down. Little porcupine. Porcupine rim.

 Clare: And it is not little.

Michelle: It's not little, but you're like, you're buying. You're by like cliffs that just drop off. You're dropping off rocks a few feet down, and you just gotta put the fear out of your mind and just go for it. And sometimes I do talk myself up when I'm mountain biking, like, yeah, you've got this. There's nothing to be afraid of. And ironically, the things that actually make me more scared are the emotional vulnerability. Like, I'm just shaking in my seat during sacrament meeting because I have to go up and share an emotional part about me and and but had decided, like, I'm not living in fear and I'm letting God's light show through me. Overcoming that fear has been huge, and I'm still constantly doing it. When Claire asked me to come, do you want to come and share on the podcast? And I'm like, that sounds really scary. I have to talk about myself or what do I have to say? Or it would be worthwhile to somebody. And to just open my mouth and let that light shine is something that I'm trying to do more and not, like I said, not live small, not live in fear anymore. And there's no reason to because God is great, God is beautiful and we can trust in him. And so I think that knowing that, why wouldn't we wake up every day, look around us and just think, what a what a blessing it is to be in this world and to bring that love of God to everybody.

Clare: With this newfound love of life and just realizing how much your Savior loves and is aware of you individually. What message of hope would you want to share with someone who is also going through something that's really hard trial right now?

Michelle: Yeah, okay, so this was actually really hard for me. I was so grateful for my diagnosis and how my story turned out, but my heart just really feels for the people who maybe didn't get the answer or the story or something in life that they had really, really wanted. And life sometimes seems so, so unfair. Like, why? Why did mine get found at stage two? And I was able to have surgery and remove it and somebody else, they found it at stage four and it had moved to major organs. And they're now focusing on quality of life and saying goodbye to beloved family members. Um, it just has to go back to trusting God that I'm so grateful that I don't have to make those decisions in life I love, I love that he's in charge and that me as a daughter and his child can say, okay, thank you. It's finding that trust in God that you are where he wants you to be, that your trial is something that you can get through. Only with God's help, I think is is kind of having that trust and that knowing that turn to God, turn to God, he'll give you peace. Even in the hardest of the times that you are feeling like, why would I be peaceful right now? I don't have a great prognosis. I don't have a great diagnosis. Somebody in my family has had something horrible happen to them. There's a lot of dark things in this world, and the only answer I have found is trust in God, trust in Christ and His atonement, and really believing that it's going to work out because there is a lot of sadness that can only be remedied by Jesus Christ.

Clare: It's beautiful that through your whole journey you've turned towards him instead of away. And I think that's one of the most beautiful things I've seen is sometimes these trials can just break someone so far down that they go the complete opposite way. And I've just seen turn towards him and you can see that love and just how much he loves all of us. And that he's always there waiting for us with outstretched arms.

Candice: Yeah, I'm really glad that even if this was intimidating to you, that you came on because you've said so many really profound, wonderful things that I think will be helpful to people. So thank you for talking to us, Michelle.

Michelle: Yeah, thank you guys for giving me a chance to stretch myself.

 Candice: Appreciate it. Okay. I'll just end with a scripture from Isaiah. Fear thou not, for I am with thee. Be not dismayed, for I am thy God. I will strengthen thee. Yea, I will help thee. Yea, I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness. Thank you for listening, and we hope you know that God loves you